Hi there! I have some skills in software engineering and i think than it's enough to start for learning FPGA. Now i'm filling the gap in physical layer. In your opinion from your experience what topics needs an FPGA Engineer for work (exclude digital circuit design, of course)? Do you using an analog circuits or power electronics theory? Have you had to deal with a deep theory of transistor amplifiers, analog transmitters, antennas? Use you an electronic technician skills (for example soldering, circuit troubleshooting)? For understanding ADC & DAC how deep knowledge of analog signals i need? Thanks! Best regards! P.S. Sry for my English.
If it's relevant, informing you about my interests and attachments of FPGA design: electronic music (especially sound synthesis), telecom (especially digital communications at all of OSI Layers with priority at L1, L2 and networks security, sometimes i'm thinking about radio frequency but i don't consider it as more than a hobby).
Alexander A. wrote: > I have some skills in software engineering and i think than it's enough > to start for learning FPGA. Now i'm filling the gap in physical layer. > In your opinion from your experience what topics needs an FPGA Engineer > for work (exclude digital circuit design, of course)? Do you using an > analog circuits or power electronics theory? Have you had to deal with a > deep theory of transistor amplifiers, analog transmitters, antennas? Use > you an electronic technician skills (for example soldering, circuit > troubleshooting)? For understanding ADC & DAC how deep knowledge of > analog signals i need? It depends on the level of proficiency you want to achive ... You can buy cheaper FPGA dev boards which are ready to go - like Arduninos - and you wouldn't have to cope with antennas and transistor amplifiers and power supply and so on. On the other hand, you could be motivated enough to completly design an own fpga dev board - then you would have to have a lot of electronic skills. Either way you need a concrete project you want to implement - otherwise it will become the 1000th knight-righter-light. Most importantly, you would have to figure out for what purpose FPGAs are used and where the advantages are compared to normal microcontrollers.
Alexander A. wrote: > I have some skills in software engineering and i think than it's enough > to start for learning FPGA. Buy an EVAL board from the FPGA manufacturer of your choice. Examine it and leran from it. Thats what its built for. > In your opinion from your experience what topics needs an FPGA > Engineer for work (exclude digital circuit design, of course)? Define "FPGA engineer" more specific. > Do you using an analog circuits or power electronics theory? > Have you had to deal with a deep theory of transistor amplifiers, analog > transmitters, antennas? > Use you an electronic technician skills (for example > soldering, circuit troubleshooting)? When you want to build a FPGA board "from the scratch": all of them. Deeply. When you build a FPGA board based on a working EVAL board: most of them. Bascically. > For understanding ADC & DAC how deep knowledge of analog signals i need? As far as you need to get it working the way its wanted... ;-)
>If it's relevant, informing you about my interests and attachments of >FPGA design: electronic music (especially sound synthesis) You can buy this board: http://www.mouser.de/new/Lattice-Semiconductor/lattice-machxo2-breakoutboard/ and connect a 100Ohm,100nF to your favorite MP3 speakers and starting hands on with this: Beitrag "VHDL Grundlagen Tonerzeugung"
Guys! I understand what is FPGA and when it used. My question is addressed to forum visitors which found job in FPGA industry, cause it looks like my potentially work in future. Detail my question: what i usually or preferably need to know from non-digital electronics and circuit design to find job? And if it's not complicate can you give me information about the source of knowledge? Thanx!
Mampf wrote: > 1000th knight-righter-light. Most probably he shall become the 100.000 FPGA-engineer trying to learn from scratch and providing design services to finally rxperience that the market is totally fill up already. My girl friend is working with a personell service provider having more than 10.000 engineers in germany under contract / employed and has a clear view on the electronic market: At almost every university in germany, europa, china and inda, jung engineers learn FPGA design such as they started to learn about C language 30 years ago. In 1985, C was new and once you learned C well enough you were the hero in the 90tees and could earn a lot of money because market was growing faster than the students went of of university! Ten years later in 1995 FPGAs were new and once you leraned Verilog or VHDL very well, you were the hero in the 2000th. The market was rapidly growing and still in the mid of 2000ths there not enough engineers with FPGA knowhow. From 2005 on, when high level synthesis was invented to drive the designs more with VHDL rather than with ABEL oder GHDL oder gate placing, and synthesis was easier and more stable and FPGAs became bigger, there were already enough people to fill the market, because it came more to software and not bot hardware and software. Meaing: The companyies splitted VHDL-Design, C-Design and electronic aspects of FPGA. There were more engineers involved but more specalist. C-Design für FPGAs was new, so there were some issues to solve, but genal C-Design was already dead! Electronic design with FPGAs was growing and people were required in masses. But now, 2015, there are about 10 times more FPGA people in the world then required, says my mate. 1) The lower market "VHDL only" is 15 times overflooded with people so only a small number of students finally work with VHDL. These persons are the "below 5 years FPGA desig expepricence" guys and prices are going down. 2) In the "middle market", with high speed FPGA design covering DDR, GTP and special solutions, there are already three times more people with knowledge and only the experienced guys with more than 5 years of knowledge get contracts and the guys with more than 10 years can earn good money. 3) Only in the "high market" with total coverage, namely electronics, signal processing, FPGA special problems, high speed design, SOC, SSO, TDC and such things, there is still demand for experts. But you need 15 years to get all this knowledge and if you start know, there are many others in front of you and market is away. VHDL-Programming and FPGA eelctronics are a dead horse in the long run view. You should focus an new aspects: The demands now are high speed board design, dealing with 500MHz on the PCB, EMI, Transitions, fiber optics and high speed internet + 40GSPS. Physical design has more demands than simple VHDL or Verilog. Next point is regulary affairs: 50% of my contracts are placed because I have knowledge about market, suppliers, regulary affiars, legal issues, patent issues and have nothing to do with electronic knowhow or FPGA. New FPGA-engineers are not required because market ist steady and students are growing faster. Today, FPGA goes to china for developing. I recently wrote a specification covering an amont of no less than 4000 men hours of work totally done in Shenzen. It is around €50 per hour in germany currency with is 40% cheaper than FPGA design here. Experts from germany are only involved when it comes to special problems and people are required to stay inhouse to solve issues are cooperate with the inhouse engineers.
Alexander A. wrote: > to find job? What kind of job? Some of those FPGA designers click solutions with Matlab. They never will have to fiddle with hardware topics. Even so those dealing with CPU cores. They are simply users of already working FPGA boards. > job in FPGA industry Define your sight of "FPGA industry".
There is no FPGA industry anymore. FPGA suppliers are sucking and only employ new FAE for marketing. But you have to be tall and good looking to do so:-) FPGA suppliers like Lattice and Actel have market problems and even Altera had which was the reason to accept the offer of Intel. There design tools for FPGAs becames easier because silicon compiling progresses. 10 years ago you needed about 25 people to verify a new Silicon Design for a new Spartan FPGA, now there are less than 10 doing this in the same time. I guess companies like Xilinx will shrink down to 60% of their nowadays employees. Regaring usage of FPGAs: Lothar is right. Many companies employ cheap C-Designers to click around in the IDE to configurate a system provided by a third party supplier. There are a number of platform suppliers from italy, canada and also germany I know with total environments for image processing, radar and object recognition, which can be totally controlled with MATLAB to test and develop new designs. The number of FPGA-engineers they need, is small too.
Well, this sounds like FPGA programming is a really dead horse. Are there any other opinions here?
From my point of view, Linux is still becoming stronger on FPGAs and growing more quickly than developers do. The reason is, that many embedded Linux experts dealing with FPGAs formerly were normal electronic engineers, having started with soft core and embedded CPU and then lately coming to Linux, like me. Those people have a limited knowledge on Linux and high level software programming techniues only. There should be a godd point to start. So one can "overjump" the electronics and focus on software. This is, because the FPGA lowlevel issues are already mainly solved, interfaces are present and FPGAs are very big and fast today to hold large C-Designs. So several Linux machnines can be used, all programmable in simple C, but though somehow effective. Of course the silicon is generally inefficient then, but development time is very expensive and time to market has more weight than cheap production costs for medium sized projects with medium lot numbers. For small lot numbers like prototypes and "below 100" pcs - rapid prototyping platforms shall be preferred. MATLAB is the point to start there. Signal processing is also mainly done for the most cases. For large lot numbers like 10.000 and above, FPGAs will be optimized in VHDL and resource usage, so optimization experts (and low current usage tricks) are required. This shall be the field for engineers. There won't be a Linux inside then. So SW knowhow is obsolete for those engineers. For very large lot numbers, ASICs became cheap enough. So ASIC-Prototyping in FPGAs is permanently done and requires some electronic knowhow. ----------------- So either concentrate on hardware, like FPGA electronic + PCB, or concentrate on software, Linux, conncetions, C++, API, database and data handling. "Big data" handling shall be the next point to serve with FPGAs. My customer works at a FPGA Server farm, with tons of FPGA platform PCBs. They all can work the same way or also differently. Just by programming. There is also an embedded Linux running on each FPGA interacting with other linux installations dynamically.
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chris wrote: > and connect a 100Ohm,100nF to your favorite MP3 speakers and starting > hands on with this: > Beitrag "VHDL Grundlagen Tonerzeugung" Not convinced that this helpes since this is thread in german language. Also not convinced that the idee is fine: FPGAs are quick circuits and not cheap at all compared to a simple microcontroller like for example the STM series. For $25, you can get a microcontroller being able to aquire, process and recreate audio signals in realtime with existing algorithm libraries like VisualDSP++ rapidly. For $25 you can get only a small FPGA doing nothing without much Verilog programming and is oversized with audio demands. An Arduino PCB hast already interface chips on board and interface to ethernet, digital audio and has serial programming and USB. Doing USB for USB-Audio is a giant project in FPGAs, in Arduino it is boring and easy and done by non engineers, just technicians without university graduation.
>in Arduino it is boring and easy and done by non >engineers, just technicians without university graduation. well .. no.
>Also not convinced that the idee is fine: >FPGAs are quick circuits and not cheap at all compared to a simple >microcontroller like for example the STM series. For $25, you can get a >microcontroller being able to aquire, process and recreate audio signals >in realtime with existing algorithm libraries like VisualDSP++ rapidly. Probably you should tell this Juergen. http://www.96khz.org/htm/fpgamusicsynthesizercyclone4.htm He is often active in this forum.
chris wrote: > in this forum. In the German part of it, the mikrocontroller.net
chris wrote: > Well, this sounds like FPGA programming is a really dead horse. > Are there any other opinions here? Totaler Bullshit, FPGA-Entwickler werden immer noch gesucht, aber eben die mit einigen Jahren Erfahrung und nicht die Greenhorns von den Hochschulen. Von denen mag zwar jeder FPGA an der Hochschule gehört haben, selbstständig ein FPGA-Projekt durchziehen können aber bestenfalls 5%. Besonders die FPGA-Programmierer aus der Informatik entpuppen sich schnell als Totalversager; Techische Informatiker mal ausgenommen. Und mit Prototypenboards und Linux auf FPGA's ist schnell ende wenn es in den Bereich Echtzeit und Sicherheit geht. Auf fertiglösung greift man im Bereich Phased array technologie auch ungern zurück weil man sich dann hinsichtlich Anpassungen, Optimierungen auf Jahre vom IP-Anbieter abhängig macht, wenn man nicht seklbst FPGA-KnowHow im Haus hat. Kleiner Tipp, nicht jeder IP-Core der angeboten wird, findet auch wirklich einen Käufer. Mit Simulink allein kriegt man auch kein FPGA-System ans Laufen, FPGA ist halt mehr als Regelstrecke und digitalfilter. PS: Ebenso ist es totaler bullshit mit deutschen Muttersprachlern ein Thema auf emglisch zu diskutieren, erst recht wenn es eine parallele Diskussion auf dem deutschsprachigen Unterforum gibt.
Drill Master wrote: > Ebenso ist es totaler bullshit mit deutschen Muttersprachlern ein Thema > auf emglisch zu diskutieren, erst recht wenn es eine parallele > Diskussion auf dem deutschsprachigen Unterforum gibt. Du bist hier im englischen Forum embdev.net (einfach mal die Browserzeile ansehen!) Deshalb ist es zumindest unaufmerksam, dort einen deutschen Post einzustellen! Besonders deshalb, weil ich es im Post davor noch explizit erwähnt habe.
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Did you recognize, that this is an english forum? Even if there is a similar discussion in der german part, you can post your ideas there, and should respond in english language! If you are pretending to be so well informed then you should be able to write in english simple language at least. For your convenience, I will translate your text: ---------- TRANSLATION OF THE ABOVE GERMAN TEXT ---------- "total bullshit" FPGA-Developpers are still required, but those with experices of years and not the green horns. These might have heard of FPGA design at their university, but are not able to drive a design fully on theirselves. Only 5% can do this. People from the field if IT are th worst. With Prototypingboards or Linux at FPGAs, there is a quick limit regarding real time and security. For example a "ready to use solution" in the field of "phased array technologie" is not a good option because one get dependent from the suplier of IP in terms of changes, optimizations for years. Have the IP inhouse is better. With only Simulink it is not possible to get an FPGA design runing at all, because FPGA is much more than just regelation loop and digital filtering. It is also total bullshit to talk with native germans in english since there is another similar topic in the german part. ------------------------------------------------------------ Well what the self proclamed expert wanted to say is exactly the same as did, namely explaining that only very experienced people are still reuqired. The normal market is filled up completely! The rest of our wannabe Expert is in fact nonsense, because of course it is possible to operate with Simulink and his phased array example does not really stand fo the majority of the designs. In fact many designs are support by IPs, often vendor like Xilinx some times also third party. Anyway this does not change the facts, that only experiences people are required. Experience here means Smulink, Electronics, Regulation, and such. It does not mean "general FPGA" because there are too many as with general C design. In both fields, VHDL and C there are 10 times more people than needed.
Lothar M. wrote: > Du bist hier im englischen Forum embdev.net (einfach mal die > Browserzeile ansehen!) Lothar was quicker in replying. Anyway same sense. One sheet I got from my girl friend, what they search for - Simulink experts beeing able to design regulation processes and model, but physicians and Math-People in the first place - no engineers - Project Managers with knowledge in regulary affairs and legal affairs, being able so sign contracts with offshore, but econmists in the first place - no engineers - Team Leaders for offshore residents, driving designs there - engineers yes, but only with perfect english and mandarine knowlege - High Frequency Designers to create PCBs with Antennas - engineers yes, but only with strong analog background and PCB-Design techniques - FPGA-Designers with special knowledge of DDR3 issues, GigabitNetwork - engineers yes, but only with special knowledge to solve prolems - Linux-Experts to solve real time issues - no engineers, but IT people with IT knowhow - embedded Linux experts to solve particular NIOS problems, engineers yes, if they have the knowhow, typically IT-guys employed! - cheap programmers, engineers yes, if not too expensive, physicians with no other options preferred - general FPGA design, no queries. Companies have enough applications. - general C Design, no queries. Companies have enough applications. - general mechanics, no queires - special mechanics to solve special problem with Auto-CAD libs - sepcial engineers to solve problems with Pulsonix-Libs or Mentor knowhow