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Forum: PCB Design & Technology PCBWay - No goods, no service


Author: Bernhard __ (Company: dl1bg) (bernhard_)
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Hi everyone,

this is a short story about my 2nd and last order at PCBWay.com.

DHL ships fast and handles the toll for you, but they take more than 15 
€ for this service in Germany. So the super offer "10 pcs for 5 $" costs 
more than 43 € for you in reality.

This is why I selected HK Post because I did not have time pressure on 
this order. And now the story....
- ordered on 14th of May, I received the tracking number on the 18th of 
May
- HK post switched the state of the parcel to "Handed over to carrier / 
Left for destination"
- HK post offers a service enqiry, but they need the type of shipment 
and a certificate of the sender
- wrote an e-mail to PCBWay and asked if they know more or can help me 
on 25th of June
- got a reply in bad English which I do not really understand, but it 
contains "Would you please contact with your local office directly"
- wrote back that I do not know what to do and what the HK post needs to 
help me.
- asked again for any help as no one answered

Now it is time to accept that I will not get the paid PCBs and 
absolutely no help from PCBWay.

Cheers
Bernhard

Author: Life (Guest)
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Sorry, but if you buy cheap you'll get cheap.

Or in this case nothing. What do you expect for that amount of money?
How much would you work for it?

Author: wait (Guest)
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See:

6. Hongkong Post
Hongkong Post is a good solution for customers who either do not have
a tight schedule for the PCBs or need to save on the shipping.
It normally takes 7-20 business days to deliver the package.


I Think


 it will take 40 business days sometime.

Wait and go dance on friday .

Author: 6a66 (Guest)
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Bernhard _. wrote:
> DHL ships fast and handles the toll for you, but they take more than 15
> € for this service in Germany. So the super offer "10 pcs for 5 $" costs
> more than 43 € for you in reality.

This is not a problem of the supplier.
Nor is it a problem of the german customs.
Import duties and taxes are oriented along a limit below which no 
customs clearance will be checked. This is 22EUR in Germany and includes 
the value of the parcel INCLUDING freight forwarding cost.
So if you order a good that costs 1EUR and need fast shipping e.g. for 
25 EUR, the parcel will be subjected to customs clearance. As the 
freight forwarder is responsible for customs clearance he will do it for 
you. That is not for free. Whether the 15EUR for customs clearance and 
money services charged by the freight forwarder are rectified is subject 
to discussion (see other german threads). Others feel also that it is 
rather on the high side.

The only way out when buying cheap goods in FarEast ist a slow and cheap 
transport and to have a detailed look onto the overall sum of the 
parcel. "Gift" declaration is NOT an option.

rgds

Author: 6a66 (Guest)
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6a66 wrote:
> The only way out when buying cheap goods in FarEast ist a slow and cheap
> transport and to have a detailed look onto the overall sum of the
> parcel. "Gift" declaration is NOT an option.

In your case I should add:

There are PCB manufacturer in FarEast that have better service when a 
transport problem occurs. Nevertheless expect some loss of good on the 
transport and hope that i's not yours. Guess how many containers get 
lost every year in rough sea?

rgds

Author: Sven (Guest)
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6a66 wrote:
> Bernhard _. wrote:
>> DHL ships fast and handles the toll for you, but they take more than 15
>> € for this service in Germany. So the super offer "10 pcs for 5 $" costs
>> more than 43 € for you in reality.
>
> This is not a problem of the supplier.
> Nor is it a problem of the german customs.

It's a problem of DHL mostly, which charges an additional €10 
"Kapitalbereitstellungsgebühr" for the €1,50 they pay in advance for 
you. The customs fee is actually zero for these orders, you only pay the 
19% VAT.

Author: Richard (Guest)
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6a66 wrote:
> "Gift" declaration is NOT an option.

Austrian Customs told me "If You have got a problem with
private company charging You illegally, You can declare
Your Package as Gift. For us, it's no matter as long the value is 
correct"

NOTE: In Austria the value of the package is calculated without the 
shipping costs. Therefore DHL Germany violating the law by charging You 
additionally
for some services they are none.

Author: 6a66 (Guest)
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Richard wrote:
> Austrian Customs told me "If You have got a problem with
> private company charging You illegally, You can declare
> Your Package as Gift. For us, it's no matter as long the value is
> correct"

You get that in written from Austrian customs?
And we know that Austria is different from Germany, for Germany it's 
illegal. And I would estimate it's the same for Austria :)

Richard wrote:
> NOTE: In Austria the value of the package is calculated without the
> shipping costs. Therefore DHL Germany violating the law by charging You
> additionally
> for some services they are none.

Depends on where you receive the package. If you receive it in Austria 
you might claim DHL (Dare that doing this :) ). If in Germany I would 
say: worthless effort.

But the topic was:
Bad support through PCB manufacturer for missig parcel.
Sorry for being off-topic.

rgds

Author: Richard (Guest)
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6a66 wrote:
> You get that in written from Austrian customs?

Yes, I have got all in written form from the Customs.

6a66 wrote:
> And we know that Austria is different from Germany, for Germany it's
> illegal. And I would estimate it's the same for Austria :)

To write "Gift" for a shipment which is actually not a Gift
is illegal in Austria to. But to pick up handling fees,
like DHL Germany doing day for day is illegal either.
Therefore It's allowed to write "Gift" for shipments
they are worth of 22EUR or less (excl Shipping).

NOTE: Gifts are free of tax (or VAT) till 45EUR.
Purchasing PCBs from a company is NOT a gift.

6a66 wrote:
> If in Germany I would say: worthless effort.

Yes, because in Germany, the worth of the shipment is calculated
including the shipping costs. Not like in Austria.

Anyway, You can avoid additionally payments to DHL Express
by making an custom account for automatic billing.

Author: Bernhard __ (Company: dl1bg) (bernhard_)
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Hello guys,

there are news about my PCBs. DHL tried to deliver them end of May (so 
quite fast), but I was at work. They told me that there must have been a 
note about this, but I did not see one.
However, I got a nice mail from PCBWay explaining that the PCBs are back 
at PCBWay and they are willing to send the parcel again.

See you
Bernhard

Author: 6a66 (Guest)
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Bernhard _. wrote:
> However, I got a nice mail from PCBWay explaining that the PCBs are back
> at PCBWay and they are willing to send the parcel again.

That I would call "SERVICE".

rgds

Author: R. Max (rmax)
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Bernhard _. wrote:

> DHL tried to deliver them end of May (so quite fast),
> but I was at work. They told me that there must have
> been a note about this, but I did not see one.

Usually events like a failed delivery attempt or the returning of a 
parcel that wasn't picked up from the post office are recorded in DHL's 
tracking data. Wasn't this the case for your parcel?

Author: Gabriel Raby (Company: pcb) (gabriel22)
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I agree that if you pay cheap, you will get cheap. I know there are two 
pcb suppliers in China. One is called pcbway,another is pcbwin. The 
former one is with amazing low price. But not such good quality.Can you 
image the quality as we can pay $5 for 10pcs borads? PCBWin is more 
reasonable in price, but the quality never let me down in quality.Thus, 
we should buy what the price deserve.

Author: Arkus Bruce (Company: electronic lab) (arkusbruce001)
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Even if this is not problem from supplier or Germany customs.
the supplier should act actively to help as much as he can, not just"i 
can't do nothing,please contact local office directly" it is bad feeling 
for buyer and i would not like the service.

Author: 123 (Guest)
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Bernhard _. wrote:
> Hello guys,
>
> there are news about my PCBs. DHL tried to deliver them end of May (so
> quite fast), but I was at work. They told me that there must have been a
> note about this, but I did not see one.
> However, I got a nice mail from PCBWay explaining that the PCBs are back
> at PCBWay and they are willing to send the parcel again.
>
> See you
> Bernhard

You do have a problem - concerning DHL and not PCBWay ...
If you don't like the way DHL handles customs clearance, payment and 
fees -> do not use DHL.
If you don't like the way DHL handels notifications and delivery -> do 
not use DHL.
If you're not willing to wait -> don't order abroad (fast & quality -> 
increasing cost)

Author: mark space (Guest)
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It should be mentioned that there is a big difference between DHL and 
DHL Express in Germany. DHL Express charges 15Euro 
"Kapitalbereitstellungsgebühr" (for what?). In case you are not home, 
they do not deliver to neighbours, packing stations or next post shop 
but return the goods to their logistic center (in my case at 60km 
distance).
So I made same bad experiences with DHL express as described above.
All these drawbacks do not apply for DHL alias Deutsche Post.
There are loads of cheap pcb suppliers in China, choose one who offers 
"Deutsche Post" like shenzhen2you.com and everything works fine.

Author: sleepy (Guest)
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Warum schimpft ihr eigentlich auf englisch über den deutschen 
DHL-Dienst?
Man kann diese teueren Abfertigungspauschalen ganz einfach vermeiden, 
wenn man ein Zollamt in der Nähe hat und sich die Ware dort abholt.
Dazu lässt man sich einfach als Selbstverzoller registrieren und fortan 
landet nur eine Benachrichtigung im Briefkasten, daß man sich die Ware 
dort abholen kann.
Natürlich muß man dann vor Ort (nach Sichtkontrolle) noch evtl 
anfallende EUSt und Zoll bezahlen, bevor man die Ware ausgehändigt 
bekommt:

"Was muss ich tun, wenn ich die Verzollung immer beim Zollamt selber 
erledigen möchte und mich nicht vertreten lassen möchte?

Erforderlich ist, dass Sie gegenüber der Deutschen Post AG ausdrücklich 
erklären, dass Sie die Zollabfertigung für eingehende Postsendungen 
selbst vornehmen möchten. Dann werden die Sendungen, ohne dass Sie von 
der Deutschen Post AG bei der Anmeldung vertreten werden, an das für 
Ihren Wohnort zuständige Zollamt weitergeleitet.
Die Registrierung als "Selbstverzoller" erfolgt formlos durch die 
Deutsche Post AG. Bitte wenden Sie sich an:

E-Mail: Selbstverzoller@deutschepost.de"


Näheres steht hier: 
http://www.zoll.de/DE/Unternehmen/Warenverkehr/Pos...

Author: Peter (Guest)
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Hallo zusammen,
ich denke ihr kennt das bild - mehr gibt es eigendlch nicht zusagen.

Author: Manfred (Guest)
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sleepy wrote:
> Erforderlich ist, dass Sie gegenüber der Deutschen Post AG ausdrücklich
> erklären, dass Sie die Zollabfertigung für eingehende Postsendungen
> selbst vornehmen möchten.

Wieso soll ich der Post gegenüber erklären, dass ich deren 
Dienstleistung nicht will?

Ich habe über Aliexpress ein GSM-Phone bestellt, versandt wurde es mit 
Schweden Post. Deklariert wurde "MP3-Player mit $11.0". Der tatsächlich 
gezahlte Betrag liegt bei 13,50 €.

Ich hatte ein Schreiben im Briefkasten, dass die Deutsche Post AG 
'leider .. blah blah .. nicht zustellen durfte' und die Sendung beim 
lokal zuständigen Zollamt abgelegt wurde. Sie bietet mir an, gegen eine 
Kostenpauschale von 28,50 €uro !!! die Abwicklung zu übernehmen, wenn 
ich den unterschriebenen Auftrag zurücksende.

Ich sitze in Deutschland und es steht irgendwie konträr zu den Eingangs 
genannten 15 Euro.

Author: sleepy (Guest)
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Manfred wrote:
> und die Sendung beim
> lokal zuständigen Zollamt abgelegt wurd

Ruf dort an, oder besser noch: Fahre mit den nötigen Belegen (Kaufbeleg, 
Rechnung, Überweisungsquittung o.ä.) zu diesem Zollamt hin und löse dein 
Zeug dort aus.
Iirc  sollte das innerhalb von 7 Werktagen passieren, sonst fallen beim 
Zollamt (mäßige) Lagergebühren an.

Author: sleepy (Guest)
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Manfred wrote:
> Wieso soll ich der Post gegenüber erklären, dass ich deren
> Dienstleistung nicht will?

Du brauchst das nicht zu erklären, aber dann machen sie es auch nicht, 
und der Zoll schickt das Zeug nach einer Weile zurück.

Diese so genannte "Kapitalbereitstellungsgebühr" ist ein schäbiger Trick 
der Post/DHL, denn nach deiner Angabe fällt für das Gerät weder EUSt 
noch Zoll an!

Ruf das Zollamt an, faxe oder maile denen ggfs die benötigten 
Unterlagen, die können es dann wieder DHL zur Zustellung übergeben.

Author: Tassilo (Guest)
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The "Kapitalbereitstellungsgebühr is only charged by DHL EXPRESS, not by 
DHL/Deutsche Post postal service. I understand people complaining about 
this, but try to see the other side:
Think about all the private customers ordering from china who have no 
clue about customs and are surprised to receive an invoice from DHL 
Express for duty/VAT. They will object the invoice from DHL Express and 
thus create extra work. DHL Express is basically charging for that extra 
work.

If you get a DHL Express account/customer number, allow them to withdraw 
their invoices from your bank account, and ideally (in Germany) get an 
EORI number from the customs office, DHL Express will not charge the 
"Kaptialbereitstellungsgebühr".

"Selbstverzollung" (having the parcel sent to the nearest customs office 
and do the processing there yourself) is only an option for DHL/Postal 
service. For all the express parcel services (like DHL Express, Fedex 
etc.) this will cost extra because it is not their standard process.

When ordering via china post to Germany indeed the tracking is a 
problem, because the parcels get a new tracking number by Deutsche 
Post/DHL, which you don't know. AFAIR this was different two years ago.

Finally it is worth asking the seller if ePacket is offered. China post 
delivers the parcel to the destination country. In Germany DPD then does 
the final delivery. After DPD has processed the incoming parcel, the DPD 
tracking number is visible in the original tracking and can be used to 
track via DPD to learn about the delivery date. It typically takes about 
10 days after leaving china for the parcel to show up in DPD tracking, 
the total shipping time is about two weeks.

Author: sleepy (Guest)
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Tassilo wrote:
> The "Kapitalbereitstellungsgebühr is only charged by DHL EXPRESS, not by
> DHL/Deutsche Post postal service

Da hat das Kind nur einen anderen Namen:
"Eine Sonderregelung gibt es bei der Post, aber nicht für alle Teile des 
Postkonzerns. Die Post berechnet bei per "echter" Post versendeter Waren 
keine Gebühren für die Vorführung zur Verzollung. Sollte der Zoll dann 
aber die Verzollung nicht anhand der Begleitunterlagen durchführen 
können, bietet die Post seit August 2015 an, die notwendigen Schritte 
gegen eine Gebühr von 28,50€ durchzuführen. Bisher war diese sogenannte 
nachträglichen Postverzollung ein kostenloser Dienst."

Hier: 
https://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/Zoll_und_...

Author: TU Student (Guest)
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Austria Post unfortunately charges the same fee (10 EUR) and it is not 
possible anymore to register for customs clearance by yourself, like it 
was before.     Import VAT is not a big problem, the problem is exactly 
this fee.

But most parcels in Austria do not incur any customs - they mostly check 
parcels that are rectangular or over some weight.   I got my PCBs from 
EasyEDA without any problems.

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